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Forward to: Ray's Letters
This is a collection of letters received over the years, by Larry, from Greg Perino. Greg expressed many opinions about a variety of subjects. Some of them you may agree with, others, you may not. Either way, you can bet Greg believed in what he said. You never had to try to interpret Greg. He always said what he meant.
Larry will remove some names, where appropriate. Otherwise, the text is as written,
by Greg.
Nov. 15, 1985
Dear Larry,
Just a note to let you know I stopped by Sunday on the way to Belleville from Chicago. Was up there to check out a donation to a small museum and to give a program to the society up there. Stayed at Nancy's (last name withheld) place. Got to visit with Ray Fraser.
I brought a bunch of books up as Nancy said we would sell 30 or so but we only sold 8. Some had already bought thru the mail. I thought while I was in your area the museum might want some with no postage added.
While there, they announced that you had been elected for the head of the IAAS or some such organization. Can’t get the initials straight. While there I told them that the pros can only push them around if they let them do it .By-pass the asses and work with the ones who don’t mind volunteer help. I also told them volunteer help was better than student help and showed slides to show what they had done.
Not much new here. The Herrons say the museum format will be changed to a historical museum. Good thing I’m leaving Jan. 1, as I could care less about historical museums. Research is much more exciting.
I stopped by the Cahokia Mounds Museum and dig before going north. Went up on the mound and looked the slump over. They can’t seem to figure out what caused it. I think it’s simple. When there were trees on the mound there was no slump. Leaves act like shingles and the water runs off. Grass acts like a sponge and holds the water till it sinks and on the mound they got tall thick grass. When we dug Bedford Mound 11, 22 feet tall and the inside was dry as a bone. It was wooded. When I dug Gibson Mound 4.11 feet tall, it had a hole on top that Mr. Lester Gibson had excavated to get to the tomb. Water held by the hole
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saturated the ground and when I was cleaning off one side where we had shoveled the dirt down the whole profile fell on me and the dozer, burying me up to my neck. The dozer was in low and crawled out from under or I would have been in trouble. A few years ago they dug large pits on top of the mound and it takes years for this to harden. It soaked up rains and the water then moistened deep into the mound and you got slumps. I’m afraid it’s too late to do anything short of covering the mound with plastic to waterproof it. Don’t dig into tops of mounds and get trees back on them. Topsoil like the Gibson mound was made of lubricants easy and slumps readily from the combined lubrication and weight of the soil.
Sincerely,
Greg
Dec 17, 1985
Dear Larry,
Just a note to let you know a collector hunting on the beach of (name withheld) 35 miles west of here found a 10 ½ inch Dalton with ears two weeks ago, then went back a week later, did some scratching, and found another Dalton 6 ½ inches long. You have to see them to believe them. Both are made of Quachita quartzite which comes in big blocks up in the mountains. We are going to the site tomorrow to see if it is a cemetery. I’m pretty sure they came from a burial.
Cahokia Mounds Museum needs 5 books to sell as Xmas presents. I shipped 5 today but with the mail like it is at Xmas, they may not get there before Xmas, so let them have what you got.
Sincerely,
Greg
6 ½ incher
I appraised a good collection of Mississippian pottery and other artifacts north of Memphis last week and wrote to (Name withheld) about it. Everything was authentic, some rare like a fine crescent bannerstone, bone dice, many fine flint adzes, discoidals, spades, etc. He never answered so guess he prefers fakes. These are priced below retail.
March 31, 1986
Dear Larry,
Thanks for the check from the last book. Sorry to hear that (Name withheld) is still buying fakes. The man should have learned by now to hire an experienced buyer. Last year I got a chance to get a group of Illinois pots from a Missouri collector who wanted them to go back to Illinois, so I wrote to (Name withheld) and offered them to him for one-third less than I could have sold them for. He gave me an argument over them before he accepted them. He has no idea when he is being taken and when his is being given a good deal. Sort of pissed me off. I figured the Illinois pottery from up on the Illinois River would be hard to come by since most sites have been excavated, and here he could get about 15 for less than value.
About the (Name withheld) site report - The (Name withheld) are not going to publish the report. It was all done except the photos. I thought I would just work long enough in January before retiring to get the photos so they could publish the report. Instead they asked me to retire at end of year. They would save about $3000 by not publishing. They gave the (Name withheld) site report to the (Name withheld) to publish but the university just put it aside. They may do so eventually but might take years.
When (Name withheld) found out they were not going to publish the report on his site as promised, he got mad. A couple commercial diggers came by and offered him $1000 for permission to dig and he let them. They found 25 burials but I never saw what they got, whether early or late.
That burial you guys started but did not finish, where you got the odd pot with four legs. I finally finished it. It had some very late pottery and 14 very nice Maud points.
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You guys were not sure you were on a burial. You were just over the feet. It was about 2 feet deeper (58 inches) and more toward the west. The pottery dated very close to A. D. 1700 but no trade goods. Anyway, I got the hole filled. Dug several more burials nearby that were much older but again, the pots were in bad shape and only got two whole ones and two small celts. These dated back to about A. D. 1300.
Sincerely
Greg
P. S. Going to try for morels this weekend. There were a few small gray ones out so guess the big yellow ones will be out soon.
June 28, 1986
Dear Larry,
Forgot to give you the history of the point Nancy brought to Cahokia. It was found near Sweetwater Texas where they have the rattlesnake hunts. This guy was looking for rattle snakes and was crossing a gulley on the side of a mountain when he found the point in the gulley.
The name Sweetwater gets confused with Goodwater and Clearwater, but it is Sweetwater, Texas. I need to get a copy for the University of Texas, when a bunch is made.
The guy who owns it now is (Name withheld) but I don’t think he wants it publicized as he has been hit once and relics and guns have been stolen from him.
Sincerely,
Greg
April 11, 1987
Dear Larry,
Thanks for the box of flint samples, they will be useful in the new book on flint. Thought you might want to know about our dig. We are digging a Caddo mound on top of an Archaic midden on (Name withheld). We started last Monday. Got two Caddo burials so far in the Caddo mound having a total of 11 pots. The Archaic midden is more important to me because it is the only preserved site of people who made the Quachita points. Got 5 feet of Caddo mound to move to get to 16 to 20 inches of midden but we are finding caches containing points like at right made of Quachita quartzite. Potters who dug there earlier got 4 caches of points some larger than this one. We already have one cache of 3 points and 16 large flakes and a cache of 11 chunks of quartzite to make points with. Also the point on the right and one slightly smaller that came from what should be a burial area. The soil is wet and like gumbo so we have to pop off chunks of it to find anything. We found pieces of slate gorgets,
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wornout chipped hoes and lots of pitted stones, manos or hammerstones. There is no bone preservation but we should find an assortment of stone points, caches. gorgets, etc. We will be working for another month then start again in the Fall if it gets too hot. We do expect to find lots more burials because the potters say they dug about 40 Caddo graves, and several Archaic caches of points but they threw away the groups of flakes with the points. I have never seen a mound like this. I think the Caddo built it to live on during floods and bury in as it is on the high bank of (Name withheld). It covers about ¼ acre. I really think we will get a dozen or more of these large points even up to 50 judging by the luck of the potters had by just digging a blind pit and hitting them. They only dug about 1/10 of the site.
We need help bad to move the Caddo part of the mound so if anybody there is interested in working for a week or so here they may see some most unusual cache groupings.
Sincerely,
Greg
Dec. 8, 1989
Dear Larry,
I’m writing to ask if you might know who is making these points. They were sent to a friend collector in Utah by (Name withheld) The collector sent them to me for authentication and not one is authentic. They are all well made but don’t have the aged look most points have. Also, the center piece is made of Central Texas brown flint but mislabeled Kentucky. The Agate Basin point upper left is made of Hixton silicified sandstone. The other white points are either Missouri or your area.
Had I not seen these I would not have believed that (Name withheld) is sending out 100 percent fakes as authentic. I thought at most a good dealer might get one fake mixed in this many points but not 100 percent. The guy began buying from (Name withheld) a year ago but has not sent points before. Now after these, he will send all he has bought from (Name withheld) and expects to return all that are phony. Some dealers think that when a collector has relics more than a week or two they don’t have to give their money back when they discover the relics are fakes, Not so, when the relics are sold as authentic, they are authentic forever and there is no time limit. A dealer in central Texas has been sued several times and lost every time costing him double. In (Name withheld) case I can’t help but believe he knows these are modern points because I know too many collectors with less experience than (Name withheld) who have learned better. The work looks much like Greg Thomases work, or (Name withheld) work, but today there are so many guys who are as good or better. How can people like (Name withheld) live with themselves when they know they are cheating every customer they send fakes too?
I have been tracking down obscure early points and found several. Two Turin points were found in the Koster dig but they did not know what they were, so I wrote and told (Name withheld) and he checked the level and got a similar date as they got with finds associated with early bison in Iowa. Then by accident I got one from a small dealer in Arkansas who bought some small points from (Name withheld), and it was from Pike County.
I never saw one from the lower Illinois River, but they range across northern Missouri, Iowa and into the Dakotas and Minnesota, and probably Wisconson. In Illinois
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they probably are found only in the northwestern section closer to Iowa. In Texas at San Antonio they are screening a san hill on (Name withheld) that overlooks a vast prarie. Truck drivers of the sand screening company have been picking relics off the screen and hundreds are Plainview/Dalton like, and Golondrina points, Angustura and Early Stemmed lanceolate of the area plus many later points. Near bottom they found a single shouldered Clovis, a Folsom preform and a very fine Midland point. I have studied the of Plainview/Golondrina/Angustura/Early Stemmed lanceolate points and note that among them are a new earlier point the Levi point which has parallel sides ½ to 5/8 inches wide and diagonal parallel-transverse flaking. It dates in the 10.000 plus B. P. range. In Wyoming the Goshen points date in this time period, and others in the east. I have great opportunities to study point types as they are sent to me from all across the country for authentication, and sometimes small dealers bring small collections they have bought and I pick out the frauds. These are the interesting ones as they sometimes have an early point type nobody knows about. Also, I have been able to buy other nice relics to fill out my types.
Ray sent 3 points he bought at a show and one had been fully reflaked into a Neugerger point, and another was one of the biggest and best Apple Creek points I have ever seen. Anyway Ray waited two weeks before reporting that he never got the box back. I filled out a slip at our P. O. to collect the insurance, but told Ray to call his P. O. because they sometimes leave things on a shelf and forget to notify the customer. He called and they said they would have sent him two notices if the box was there, but they would not check to see if it was. The next day the box arrives. I’m sure the P. O. people looked later and found it, but we had to go through all the paper work and phone calls to try to trace it down. Such are our civil servants.
Still working on Vol. 2 of the point guide and hope to have it out by end of next year. We are about out of Vol. 1, but can’t publish a second edition until we publish Vol. 2, as it will cost in the $20,000 range. When Vol. 2s are sold we then can reissue Vol. 1. Give your bearded friend at Cahokia my regards, and you and yours have a happy and enjoyable Xmas holiday.
Sincerely,
Greg
May 2, 1990
Dear Larry,
Got so busy after returning from Cahokia haven’t had time to work on the slides duplicated by the Cahokia people. Tell the flint knapper Dave who is in charge of slides I’ll get them back to him soon as I am able to copy some that were lost in my set. I remember now that he borrowed the slides and probably the Schild slides also to make copies. They had them for a long time. When I got them back I put them in the trays in the order I had sent them but did not check to see if they had been returned in the same order, or if all were there. I never checked until the nite before leaving for Cahokia and was devastated to find them mixed and about 15 missing. I spent about 3 hours that nite trying to get what I had in some order that made sense. I had taken the Yokem slides down as well as the Cahokia slides, but accidentally put the Yokem slides back instead of the Cahokia slides. What a mess. I hated to show again the Cahokia slides I showed the last time I was there. When I can get the missing slides copied in my set I’ll get them in order or sequence and send them a sequential copy so they can show them in an order that makes more sense. I hope the missing slides show up eventually because even their set does not have them all. We have a hard time getting copies made here because even Kodak now won’t deal with little photo shops unless
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they can do one hundred thousand dollars of work a year for them. None of our shops handle this much slide copying, so they have to send slides to Texarkana to a shop that does handle that much business. I guess videotapes will now replace slides. Sure would have been nice having one on these digs.
I’m trying to trade a guy out of a Morse knife I think might be one Fecht found, either at Merigan or at Snyders. A guy in Arkansas has it. It is 11 1/8 inches long, and is red and yellowish, heat treated. Nobody knew what it was and nearly got it mixed up with the later bipointed Caddo knives. This is a big knife. Many are large but few more than 10 inches long.
Sincerely,
Greg
PS. I sincerely hope that the screwup in the slides didn’t disappoint anybody. It was good to see old friends again. I have not heard from (Name withheld) since then either, wonder if he is okay. Larry Conrad wants me to deposit all our black and white negatives from Illinois digs at his college.
Aug 24, 1990
Dear Larry.
Just a note to let you know, and maybe you can tell the bearded one at Cahokia, that Dorothy finally got to go to Tulsa where she took the copies of our Schild site slides to be duplicated (the ones Cahokia Museum had). They cost over a dollar apiece. It’s hard for me to believe how prices have gone up in the last few years. Anyway tell Dave I’ll get his duplicates back in about a month. I’m trying to find them to get them back in sequence, then describe each. Your buddy up on Lake Shelbyville is visiting here next month and I’ll see if he is going back past Cahokia. If so, I’ll have him deliver the slides. Also, if Dave sent the missing slides separately from the rest, I didn’t get them.
It’s important to get the slides in sequence because when we dug the Schild cemetery it followed the last Late Woodland mound. The mixed woodland/Mississippian pottery in the first graves at the end of Mound 9 on down were the earliest Mississippian burials, to where the pottery no longer showed Woodland influence. Same for Yokem site only there we began with Mississippian and went back to Early Late Woodland but it made sense. Cahokia did not have any of the slides in sequence. Larry Conrad wants the rest of my slides eventually for his college. Guess one place is good as another, and others can make copies from them there. At least we know we can trust Larry to be careful with them. It’s not as if he is a stranger.
I’m having a much harder time getting Vol. 2 of our point guide out with 250 types than with Vol. 1, with 400 types. My time seems to be split too many ways. I’m getting lots of relics to check for authenticity, and some are getting much better made and harder to identify. It is too bad the flint knappers don’t sign their work in the deepest flake scar as those that can be identified later as to maker will be collectable. Some are already saving the Gray Ghosts, and Matt Tussinger’s lacy edge flints of the 1930s. The Gray Ghosts were made by Rhinehart, between 1935 and 1978 when he died and his stuff is distinctive and large.
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Tussinger’s work is also distinctive. His points made of novaculite are very large but narrow and thick. His lace edge stuff made on large authentic blades with stems missing is also distinctive and works of art. He used to advertise for broken points. Offered 2 cents apiece during the depression and got scads of them.
I’m still seeing new fakes coming on the market I never saw before. Various people are making shell ornaments, engraved deer antler, flat stone spuds, skull pendants made from the tops of Caddo skulls, engraving a plain authentic bottle worth $75 and selling it for $1000. It can be done in one evening per bottle. And now they get beatup fancy pots cheap and totally rebuild and repaint them. A lot of collectors are so green they can’t tell they are not untouched pots. A dealer in Texarkana got hold of a collection that burned up in a house fire recently, glued all the flint pieces together and rebuilt a bunch of points which he then sold as relics from a Caddo cremation. Some of the points were fake but the fire made them look authentic. Some people get a great satisfaction in seeing if they can con sincere collectors. These people have to be sick or have some sort of deficiency in their character. (Name withheld) sold fake steatite pipes till he died and he was a wealthy man who didn’t need that kind of money.
It has been very interesting in doing authentications because I have learned so much and see when new things come onto the market. Some things are so rankly modern you would think the average collector would notice but they don’t. I get a few stumpers that are so good I’m not sure they are flakes like the Scottsbluff sent to me recently. It had white patina totally on one side. It was made from central Texas flint and was a southern type found in Texas, but this one was supposed to have been found in Taos New Mexico. I can’t believe this Texas point could have gotten that far west as they have better flint out there so would not be importing gray flint from Texas. Their Scottsbluff have rectangular stems, Texas Scottsbluffs have slightly expanded stems with slightly convex basal edges.
Sincerely,
Greg
This original
drawing, came with this letter.
June 17, 1991
Dear Larry,
Sent this so I could also send a letter. Give the slides to your bearded buddy at Cahokia. These are the Schild site slides I spent days on trying to get them synchronized with the dig. Also an explanation for each slide. Maybe a good speaker can put this on video tape for programs.
Still have the Yokem slides to do but they will be easier. All I need is time which don’t seem to have much of. Finally got Vol. 2 out but am still waiting for shipping boxes. Printing went up a lot in 6 years but we want to hold the price at the same as Vol. 1 at $40 plus $3 postage and packing.
I got to tell you about another (Name withheld) deal. A collector sent me Two points he got from (Name withheld). Both were fakes. One was made of Central Texas flint and was marked from the Butch Ducept Collection and (Name withheld) Collection. Butch has been dead for many years and lived up by Kermit Suhling. The other point was marked from the Gray Ladassor Collection. He also has been dead for a while. Its lousy using the names of dead people who never had these points. A dealer in Alabama also does this.
The Texas Arch. Society had a field school at the Kaufman site just across the fence from the Williams site. Its all the same site. I spent 4 mornings probing features for them so they would have something to dig when they came. Some 536 people, volunteers, came to dig. They had 4 other sites nearby and got them scattered out. They used the Idabel fairgrounds and fair buildings for lectures and they parked in the parking lot with their trailers, tents, and travel homes. The evening meal we cooked in a big trailer kitchen. They just began getting to interesting things when the week ended. I don’t know how they will finish the digs. When the crowd descended I got out of there. They had enough help that they could have troweled up an acre at a time. They found several burials, some I had probed.
Sincerely,
Greg
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I am also trying to sell the (Name withheld) collection. He is in bad condition and is not expected to live so his wife asked me to sell the collection and books. The doc said he had 2 months to live a year ago and he is still alive, barely. He got pneumonia and other things, on top of cancer in the liver and lungs and they cure these but not the cancer. He is a walking dead. I hate to see what they are doing to him. He wants to go but they won’t let him. Mostly they keep him doped up. We visited him one day early and they had just given him the shots. He saw us and smiled then went to sleep.
I sold some of it but its slow and may take two years. When buyers come they stay from an hour to 3 hours each so you can see where my time goes. I want to begin Vol. 3 soon but can’t do much with the interruptions.
Some collectors live way off and I have to pack and price a dozen items then keep books on who paid and who owes. Some collectors want the relics now and pay half with the rest in monthly installments. I get nervous with such arrangements and try to avoid them.
There were two broken Agee arrow points made of heat-treated novaculite. I though, hell these won’t be worth much. Got 80 dollars for the broke one glued back and $50 for the one that was made from the base of a broken point and the tip of another. The guy who found them deliberately bulldozed a mound to get the relics and broke most of the points.
Also found another tray 3 small ¾ inch Agee points from the Crenshaw site. I thought these were pretty small so will ask what they will pay for them. The highest offer was $200 each. I could not believe it. Cahokia gem points would probably sell for that also. I did not know they were bringing such prices as they are small arrow points.
Jan. 8, 1992
Dear Larry,
Kermit Suhling was here heading for home and should arrive there Thursday 9. I gave him a big bundle of can for dart shafts and asked him to save some for you. Mrs. Toby Morrow had called about getting some but they wanted to use them immediately but they are green. The ones Kermit have were picked 3 weeks ago so should be nearly dry and ready to straighten. If you don’t get them soon you might have to soak them again to straighten them. I made up four that really straightened well when half green. Also cut some arrow shafts that are very nice and straight. If you get to Kampsville soon check with Kermit about the cane.
I know of a big patch of dart and arrow shaft size canes so if you need more bring a pick up.
Sincerely,
Greg
Aug.22 1992
Dear Larry,
Today I received this forward section of an arrow that was found in a dry rock shelter on the ________ Crockett Co., Texas in 1957 or 1958 after the University of Texas had conducted a dig there.
The tip appears to be a Cuney point made of Alibates flint which came from the Texas panhandle. This sounds like a long way from flint origin. It has a light willow? shaft exactly as thick as shown. Most people today make their shafts much heavier. I prefer one slightly larger than this but not much. The binding is sinew wrapped well down the shaft. The stem is totally covered so can’t tell if there was glue or such to hold the point.
Sincerely,
Greg
Here' the accompanying photo.
Dec. 22, 1992
Dear Larry,
Sounds like you all are okay and rarin to go. Heard from Kermit Suhling and he said they had the biggest mountain man meet ever and that the beach along the Illinois River was full of tepees. I expect you were there too. Since (Name withheld) left we don’t hear anything from (Name withheld) and her group anymore. They seem to be keeping a low profile. I did get word that (Name withheld) finally got the Peisker Site material back that I spent 4 months digging, then loaned to (Name withheld). She told the guy who asked her to return it to me she would not but would keep it. So much for loaning anything to universities, etc. A couple of months ago I loaned a Caddo blade to the (Name withheld). They wanted to study any Caddo blades made of Central Texas flint. I sent mine to them. They kept it a month and when I got it back they had ground off a spot on one side about ¼ inch wide and ½ an inch long. The damn spot makes the piece look phony. So much for lending anything to Universities. I would rather they had taken a small flake off than grind on it.
In your procuring flint can you get me some flakes of various Illinois flints so I can identify what some Illinois points are made of? Recently I have had large Etleys, Wadlows, Hardins, etc and some were made of different kinds of brown flint and different kinds of Crescent Quarry flint. I’m told some brown flint comes from the Crescent quarry while others come from southern Illinois.It’s confusing. Some guys do have funny ideas about atlatls. It’s stuff they dream up like the nut in Michigan who wrote on "Fitted hammerstones". They were the edge preparation tools used in flint knapping but he would not admit they were flint knapping tools but hammerstones. These guys jut can’t get dumb ideas out of their heads. I bought a large Cahokia dance sword lately 10 ½ inches long that had about 3 inches of the tip missing. These big blades are damned rare at Cahokia and it only cost $250 so I bought it. It had the surfaces worn from long time handling just like the 14 inch one found with a burial in Sw. Arkansas two years ago. It had 4 inches missing and had surfaces hand polished even more from several
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generations of handling. It sold for $1500 so I figured I could get a thousand from the Cahokia knife if I ever sold it. The Arkansas piece was made of Dover flint. It’s the only Dover flint knife I know of found in Arkansas although some were found at Spiro. Other dance swords found in Caddo graves are broad with rounded ends that get pointy when resharpened several times. I studied a couple and one had serrated edges right up to the middle where one serrations was lacking. I put it under a black lite and I saw a brown line running across it to the unserrated edges. These were dance swords that had a cord tied around the middle to keep them from falling and breaking during dances just like the had on the northwest coast in the White Deer Dance. Up there the custom ran into historic times so they are known to have been tied with cord that probably fastened around the wrist. To me this is final proof of a cord around the middle. The University of Arkansas several years ago dug a small house that had house patterns is it and a grave with two women and a male in the middle. The guy had a 10 inch blade at the back of his head on edge. It was serrated but the serrations came up the middle and the left one blank on each edge. I have asked them to put it under a black lite to see if there is evidence it had a cords around it. The one I studied had been heat treated as most are and the central area of each side was highly polished from generations of handling but the edges had been freshly serrated just before burial and were flat and dull looking. It had not been handled much after serration. Then I got to study an 8 inch knife from another grave very much like it and it had the middle area highly polished from handling, had new serrations but all serrations on the edges. I think they may have tied a cord around it after totally serrating it but it did not show under a black lite. The high polish and new serrations on these blades indicate they were used for several generations just like in the northwest, then buried with important people, some resharpened just before burial. Don’t know if this discovery means much because the pros act like its normal, but they never reported it on the piece U. of Ark. Dug.
Sincerely,
Greg
Late ’90s
Dear Larry,
Thanks for the shots of the Cahokia drills. They do show up good enlarged. On this page are some Cahokia points I used to have but two in particular intrigue me. They are the two with the single barb. I found them near the same house site but a couple years apart so am sure the same guy made both. I once found a bone harpoon point on the Ramey site so maybe these are bow and arrow harpoons. Ever see any before?
Sincerely,
Greg
Here's the photo that accompanied the letter.
March 3, 1993
Dear Larry,
Long time no see, but then, your no raving beauty. I found this old book among my things read it and find it fairly factual. Seems to me long ago I heard your wife was a story teller. No offense, I mean she tells stories to kids about Indians. This little book may give her new stories to tell, not that you don’t believe her old stories.
It has a couple color plates that are rare for the time it was printed and some people are mounting them in frames as antiques. I’m giving it to you just in case she can use it. Around here with the 4 grandkids they might tear it up. Otherwise how are things coming along. I’m getting more fakes to check than ever. Its getting bad. For 50 years some guys have been making miniature Folsoms by finding a flake that has a flat side on both sides then chipping the edges into the shape of a point. Many have been sold as small Folsoms. Once you catch on its funny to see waves of flute scars running from one side to the other, or from tip down to one side. Anyway hope you and your wife like the book. It has some info from your area.
Sincerely,
Greg
June 15, 1994
Dear Larry,
That sure is a deadly looking club with the sharks teeth. Its anyones guess how the teeth were used and yours is as good as any. It looks something like Maori clubs. In the Florida finds at Key Marco they had a carved wooden club that has rounded serrations on both edges that could indicate teeth when they were used.
Looks like you used Bois de Arc wood on your club which is heavy by itself. (walnut). I’d like to find out where the Cahokia rulers got the idea for the club. Surely they must have seen a Coastal Indian with one.
Greg's original sketch of the club.
There are a lot of new collectors coming on, about 20 percent in the last two years and they are getting stuck with fakes you won’t believe. Sometimes their whole collections are fakes. The flint knappers are getting much better and the dealers are learning how to age things better. Just can’t understand why anyone would collect something they don’t know a thing about. Its almost impossible to get topnotch relics now and the second grade stuff is going up high in price. Everyday someone asks me where they can buy good relics.
Ray called recently and he said that he was coming down in July. Hope its not too hot as he wants to walk the Sulphur River bed where they are finding all kinds of point, but at that time of the year its about 120 down in the riverbeds. Hope we get a cloudy day for that. Got to get back to work as I’m loaded with work since we got back from Tucson two weeks ago. I had a weeks work waiting when we got back.
The garden is going great guns. We are just getting tomatoes and scads of string beans and squash. Onions are in too. The cabbage is just coming in and the peppers and eggplant too.
Looks like you could make more of these clubs and sell them.
Sincerely,
Greg
Dec. 4/94
Dear Larry,
There are rumors that you have reached the top of the heap with the big 5 owe, and it’s a downhill pull for you from now on. May your next 50 years be as good as the last, I think. Anyway, any guy who has reached the plateau is entitled to an equal shot at a century.
Some things come around. (Name withheld) who you might have known when he was a student working in Illinois is now at SMU in Dallas and will be visiting us soon. Never thought I would ever see him again. I haven’t heard from Vern Carpenter for several years, have you? (Name withheld) called a few months ago and he is doing well working for public service of St. Louis. Kermit seems to be doing well also. For years he thought he had asthma & leukemia but they found out now it was a heart condition. (Name withheld) seems to be sickly and can barely talk. I have no real info on his condition.
Anyway we are still doing fine. Maybe it’s the 4 grandkids we inherited 7 years ago to raise that has kept us going. At least it certainly has been noisy. They seem determined to go to college but it will have to be on their own, we cant help much. The oldest girl is going into medicine. They all make good grades but she has most As. She may get a scholarship. All have a card in the Cherokee nation being part Cherokee on their fathers side.
I have so much work in authentication that I’m having to work weekends now. My fees go up to match other authenticators first of the year to $15 per item. I’m making twice as much money now as I did when I worked in museums. Its better to be self employed as you can work when you want-sometimes. Maybe with the fee raise I’ll get more time off and also get to work on Vol. 3 again. I still need about 100 more point types not in Vols. 1 and 2 to complete it. Got some real good ones most have not seen before. Ray will be down in early spring and we will try the Sulphur River and other spots to find good rocks. You and yours have a good holiday season. So far the weather has been fine and only had a slight freeze. The next two weeks will be warm.
Sincerely,
Greg
Late ‘90s
Dear Larry,
I found this article in my Okla. Magazine and thought you might enjoy it. Allso, when you bring the drills up to Mike ______ will you give him a copy of yours and Petes analysis of the drills. I think he might like to have it.
Otherwise not much going on here. Should have Vol. 3 out by Thanksgiving. I am sure glad when that thing is finished/published. Each Vol. Took about 10 years, not straight thru but sometimes pretty intense work what with writing so many people in different areas for info on types.
Greg
Larry’s notes from Greg Perino interview on January 15th, 2005
When shown a photo of all the flint shark’s teeth from Gilcrease, Greg was asked to identify where they were found and he said that the ones with straight or slightly concave bases all came from the club located NE of Monk’s mound. He said the 3 convex base ones came from Md. 34 and the stemmed one came from the burned trash pit in Md. 34. He remembered the burned one came from the trash pit but could not remember where the other 3 came from but he figured they had to come from the trash pit too. He said he had seen another shark’s tooth found in St. Charles.
I was asking Greg if he’d ever run into truss trenches and, after I described them to him, he said he had uncovered one at the Snyders site but had no idea what it was. Greg said to watch out for a large Hopewell village at the curve (Buster Wortman’s brother’s old place) on the North end of Caseyville (North side of Canteen Creek and East side of rte. 157). There are accounts in the paper showing a huge development going in there pretty soon.
When asked about celt caches, especially the 150 found in E. St. Louis, he said that he had seen them and they came from the Aluminum Ore plant and very few of them had been finished.
I asked Greg about the copper workshops under md. 34 and he said he remembered "trowelling little flakes and flecks of copper around the posts" and he left those deposits intact. He also said that the posts in those workshops were left intact and not excavated.
Greg had just come back from 4 days in the hospital and they were having trouble with setting the doses of his medication. Most of the time he was very lucid but occasionally would seem to tire and he would vere off the subject. It seemed that he was still lucid when talking archaeology and we could see he really enjoyed it. We stayed about 3 hours and left when it was clear that he was tiring (about 2PM). He had taken his medication about noon and it makes him tire easily.
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